The Future Is Human: Why Camp Still Matters in an AI-Driven World with Scott Brody
Get my newsletter every week.
It’s all about kids today
Let’s cut to the chase. Camp isn’t just summer fun. It’s not just arts & crafts, color wars, and s’mores (although, come on, who doesn’t love a good s’more?). Camp is where kids learn how to be—how to be resilient, independent, adaptable, and, most importantly, kind. And no one understands this better than Scott Brody.
Scott is the LeBron James of camping—the guy who’s been shaping lives at Camps Kenwood and Evergreen for decades. He’s owned, directed, and built camps. He’s fought for camps in Washington D.C. (literally helped save the industry during COVID), and he’s spent his entire career figuring out how to make camp more than just a summer getaway.
And this summer? I get to work alongside him. I couldn't be more excited.
The Future is Human: Why Summer Camp is the Greatest Cheat Code for Raising Leaders
Imagine a place where your kid wakes up every morning surrounded by their best friends, spends the day trying new things, pushing their limits, laughing uncontrollably, and—without even realizing it—building the skills that will define their future. Now imagine a place where they do this completely unplugged, no screens, no endless dopamine hits from TikTok, no AI-generated distraction machines pulling them out of the present moment.
This place exists. It’s called summer camp. And not just any summer camp—Camps Kenwood and Evergreen, where I have the privilege of spending my summer.
Why Camp? Why Now?
The world is changing faster than any of us can keep up with. AI is coming for every job that is repeatable, scalable, and predictable. Lawyers? AI can already write better contracts. Radiologists? AI can spot anomalies in x-rays better than humans. Customer service reps? AI doesn’t need lunch breaks.
So what’s left? What’s the moat? What do we double down on?
Humanity.
Emotional intelligence, resilience, creativity, adaptability, leadership, friendship—these are the last bastions of defense against a world that will be increasingly run by machines. And where do kids build those skills? Not in school, where they’re still being trained to be quiet, sit still, and memorize things they could just Google. Not in the metaverse, where relationships are as deep as a puddle. But at camp—where every day is an immersive simulation in the most important skills no school can teach.
What Makes Kenwood and Evergreen Different?
A lot of camps have great activities—archery, swimming, rope courses. But let’s be real: any fancy summer program can give kids cool toys to play with. What sets Kenwood and Evergreen apart is this:
Here, kindness is the highest form of status.
In most of the world, status comes from being the loudest, the richest, the fastest, the strongest. At camp, you earn status by taking care of the people around you. By making someone’s day better. By being the person others trust, look up to, and lean on.
That’s a cheat code for life. Because when kids learn that being kind makes them more respected—not less—they carry that lesson into the world long after they leave camp.
The Leadership Pipeline No One Talks About
Every year, millions of kids go to camp, but the best camps create something bigger: a leadership flywheel. At Kenwood and Evergreen, kids don’t just have an amazing summer; they grow into the kind of young adults who want to pass it on. More kids come back as counselors here than almost any other camp I’ve ever seen. Why? Because this isn’t just a summer gig—it’s an opportunity to lead, to mentor, to make an impact. And they’re not just leading silly games (though we do plenty of those); they’re learning how to create culture, solve problems, manage people, and inspire others. These are the future CEOs, founders, and leaders.
I know because I’ve seen it. And now I get to be a part of it.
Why I’m Betting Big on Camp
I’ve worked in startups, consulted with CEOs, and spent years coaching top executives. I’ve seen what the best leaders have in common. Spoiler: it’s not that they went to an Ivy League school or got a perfect SAT score. It’s that they know how to build relationships, communicate clearly, adapt to new situations, and rally people around a vision.
These are camp skills.
When I first heard Scott Brody talk about Kenwood and Evergreen, he wasn’t talking about activities. He was talking about mission. About preparing kids for the future. About the importance of resilience, independence, and belonging. That’s when I knew: this is the place I want to be.
And if you’re a parent wondering how to give your kid the best shot at a future where they don’t just survive but thrive—you should seriously consider giving them the camp experience.
Your kid will have the best summer of their life. But more importantly, they’ll come back a better human. And in a world where humanity is the greatest competitive advantage, that’s the best investment you can make.
See you this summer.
Get my newsletter every week.
It’s all about kids today
Jack Schott
Summer Camp Evangelist
Transcript:
Cabin Chat Ep 3
Jack:
How's everybody doing? I could not be more excited to be sitting down with Scott Brody, my personal friend, former chair of the American Camp Association Board, owner and director at Camps Kenwood and Evergreen, also the owner of Everwood Day Camp and Camp Siwataro. And finally, Scott, I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions here about the work you've done in government affairs to take care of camps across the country. This is sort of a different style of conversation than...
I imagine most podcasts work. We're gonna talk to each other. We're gonna learn about each other. And the part I'm the most excited about is that I get to spend the summer with you. This is a sort of a coming out party that I get to say out loud that I'm so excited to spend the summer at Camps Kenwood and Evergreen, getting to know the community, getting to know the impact, getting to see the magic of what you have done in New Hampshire for so long in action. And I couldn't.
Honestly, I said I couldn't be more excited to sit down, but the summer's gonna obviously be even so much better. So Scott, working and running camp is incredibly challenging. It's taxing. There's a ton that goes into it. You've been doing it for a long time. It's a lot of responsibility. Why bother?
Scott:
Gosh, first of all, Jack, I just want to start by saying how excited we are to have you as part of our team, as a leader on our team, and as part of our Kenwood and Evergreen family.
It is, I haven't been doing it a long time. It's actually funny, yesterday I spent about three hours with Arthur and Judy Sharino, who were the owners of Camp that I grew up with. And they're both in their 90s now.
And you know, I make sure that we get some time together from time to time and this was really it was it was amazing and we were talking about their 39 years running Kenwood and Evergreen and You know, I was a kid back then I started as a camper in 1973 and Fell in love with camp. I mean it was well, I guess for me
It was very different from home. I grew up in a kind of a rough neighborhood and it was tough to find a peer group that I really connected with. And I went to Kenwood and Evergreen and it totally changed my life. I found my people and I found people who would become my closest friends and many of them still are my very closest friends. And I found mentors like
my counselors and like Arthur and Judy, who helped me discover my capabilities and really develop a belief in myself and discover my strengths and kind of find that best version of myself. essentially that's why I do what I do.
Scott:
It camp transformed my life in all of these extraordinary ways. And when I finally became a counselor after a few years away, I fell in love with the chance to do that for my campers. And ultimately, as a 21 year old, I sat down with Arthur and Judy and said, do you think this is something that I can do someday? Do you think I've got the right set of talents and capabilities
capabilities and they said, yeah, we think you do, but we're pretty sure you're going to change your mind. And you know, you can do lots of different things and.
you're probably going to head off in a different direction. But if you're really interested, we'll give you a chance to learn. over the course of the next 10 years, I spent a little bit of time every summer, even while I went to law school and practiced law and did some business consulting. Kenwood and Evergreen was kind of my anchor. And I came back every year to learn something new about what it took to lead the Kenwood and Evergreen community and to be a camp director.
And when they were finally ready to hand over the reins, we sort of struck a deal that worked and essentially since I was 30, Kenwood and Evergreen has been my responsibility. I've been the steward of the community along with some amazing camp leaders.
Jack:
And I know you take that responsibility incredibly seriously. How do you think about what it is, what does it take to be the steward of the community? You mentioned the lessons that you learned as a 20 year old, a 21 year old, I imagine as a 30 year old and as a 35, every year learning something new. how selfishly?
as a person that is hoping to be a part of continuing to lead camp going forward with more and more folks, what advice would you have for someone like me?
Scott:
Hmm. You know, I guess first of all...
As we learn and grow and as we age and as the other aspects of our life develop, our relationship to the work shifts, right? So I was in love with working with kids and helping them discover their strengths. But as I became a parent and raised my son, I also developed a huge amount of empathy for our parents.
And I really identify with the struggles of being a parent who is trying to do right by your kid, who is the person or are the people, if you have more than one kid, who you love more than anything in the world. And...
despite everything that we do as parents, trying to give our kids and still in our kids, character and curiosity and all of the traits that we wish for them, there are some limits to what we can do. We can't help our kids become more independent in our presence. It's challenging for them to do that. Little leaps out of the nest, not big leaps.
We can't pick their friends. We can't ultimately help them with their problem solving and their decision making. There are just these little things that are so critical to their development that have to take place in our absence.
Scott:
And we, you know, we can't choose mentors for them. We can expose them to people. We can make good choices about that. But we don't know who they're going to connect with. And ultimately, what I want Kenwood and Evergreen to be is a place for parents to feel comfortable releasing their kids into our summer community and letting them establish and sort of grow those roots, spread those wings.
find great friends that will be with them through the rest of their life and find great mentors who can help them discover the amazing things that they can do.
Jack:
And something that I struggle with sometimes, camp is so fun. Summer camp might be the most fun place for kids on the planet. It's unbelievably fun. Color War, I've been hearing about Big Weekend, Hula-Pooloo. I mean, sounds like Kenra and Evergreen is incredibly fun at another level, but it's so fun. And at the same time,
It's so full of growth and opportunity for kids to be the best version of themselves and prepare them for the future. And I know that you have spent a lot of time thinking about what the future might look like. it's a, knows? Right now in 2025 as AI takes over the world in some ways, it's a pretty uncertain future.
So how do you think about the fun of connected to the possibility of preparing kids for what might come?
Scott:
Mmm.
It's a really great question and it's one I obsess over, right? So look, camp can't help but be fun, right? Kids are doing stuff they love to do, you know, whether it's sports or arts or adventure, you know, we're engaging kids, they are playing, they are living it up, right? It's an extraordinary, it's like the playdate that never ends or the sleepover that never ends, you know, it has to.
at some point, but you know it can't help but be fun if we're doing our job and we're really good at that. But the truth is...
there's all this growth that's going on in the background, right? And in many ways, that's the value add, right? Because look, we can take our kids to Disney and they're gonna have fun, right? We can take them on vacation here and there and, you know, fun is sort of not so difficult to discover for your kid, but finding a place that is fun and truly meaningfully enriching and building them up in the ways that are really going to be
be important to them for the rest of their lives, that's kind of the magic, right? And since, you know, I've always viewed our mission, you know, as...
Scott:
preparing our kids to thrive in the world that they're going to step into. That's really required us to really look forward and think about the kinds of capabilities and dispositions and skills that we can help them develop through their time at camp that are going to serve them well in the world. you know, you're right, the pace of change has never been
faster. As parents, know, my mother taught me to drive, right? That was probably the biggest piece of technology I was introduced to. You know, the automobile and my mother introduced me to it or, you know, maybe a teacher introduced you to it or whatever.
our kids are so far out ahead of their parents when it comes to an introduction to technology, when it comes to sort of embracing the tech revolution that we're playing catch up, right? So I, you know, try as I might and many of our families know I geek out on this stuff, right? I really obsess, I read everything I can read and I've got a,
I've been privileged to meet some amazing thinkers over the years. And those are the waters that I like to swim in, right, to keep learning and growing. And, you know, the one thing that I guess has become clear to me is that it's very difficult to predict the world that our kids are going to grow up in. Look how fast AI has accelerated. I started talking about it in press
presentations at professional conferences probably 10 or 12 years ago. And the last three years have happened so fast, right? Have accelerated everything that it's impossible to predict what an eight year old today is going to encounter in the world when they're 18. Probably they'll be using tools that haven't
Scott:
invented yet and probably have careers that we can't even really imagine. So the question is how do you prepare a child for that kind of change? And to me in some ways it's a return to fundamentals, right? It's like that strong inner core. How do we help our kids to be able to weather change like that? And they have to do it
with flexibility and adaptability and self-belief.
right, sort of growth mindset, which we all have encountered as a concept, but it's more, right, curiosity. They're going to have many careers. They're going to do many things. So it's sort of that strong inner core that we're trying to help them develop through their camp experience. And we're also trying to help them to return to those kind of fundamental social and emotional
skills, friendship, face-to-face relationships, human connection, being unplugged is maybe one of the greatest blessings of but also learning how to navigate friendship and relationship and what caring and understanding and empathy and forgiveness are all about. And camp is an environment where all of those things happen packed
into a six and a half week summer or a three or three and a half week half summer in this amazing way that sticks.
Scott:
right? So that the lessons that our kids learn and the skills that they develop at camp stick with them. And I think that is in some ways the greatest thing we can give our kids and help them to deepen those skills summer after summer.
Jack:
Scott, double click on this for a second because you and I are talking to each other right now over the magic internet with our computers open. I love technology. I listen to too many tech startup podcasts. I was a part of a venture backed startup that was building SaaS for a little while. I love the internet.
I love AI, use ChatGPT or Clawed every day, and at the same time, you're telling me that, and I agree with you, of course this is why we're in this together, putting down our phones, disconnecting, unplugging, going tech-free, is how to prepare kids for a more technologically-fueled future.
Scott:
You're helping me. You're helping me do that,
Jack:
Square that circle. How does that work?
Scott:
Well, look, we grew up with a foundation of human relationship, right?
You we were probably, you were probably the end of the period of time where kids went out and played, right? And navigated those neighborhood relationships with independents from a relatively young age. That's a real rarity for kids today, right? And you know, so many of their relationships are through technology or at least intermediated with technology.
that's where they're most comfortable and the pandemic just made it that much worse, right? In some ways it's a blessing because it enabled our kids to stay in touch with their friends in some way, but it also normalized the kind of communication that we're doing right now over the face-to-face stuff. you know, we see kids, know, kids from families with resources
and opportunities who have trouble making eye contact, who have trouble entering a room and connecting with new people. And that's just kind of, it's a casualty of our tech-dominated society. And camp is like...
it's because it is for the most part a tech free zone and because it is built on face to face genuine human relationship, right? Kid to kid, kid to counselor, counselor to kid, counselor to counselor.
Scott:
these skills just blossom. And I think maybe the biggest aha that our kids have, especially their first summer at Kenwood and Evergreen, is that giving up their devices while it involves a bit of a transition for a couple of days is actually incredibly liberating and opens up
a part of the world that you and I experienced as kids that it's really challenging, particularly for today's teenagers to experience. So camp is like a reset, right? And it brings them back to kind of, you know, level one humanity, right? And I just think that...
That's a predicate for living a happy life and having lifelong relationships, partners, a family, all of those things that regardless of where the world goes, we want for our children. And the camp is just an amazing setting for those qualities to take hold.
Jack:
Scott, have to be honest with you. I'm a little bit nervous for where the world goes with AI and technology. I'm nervous because AI is going to be better at doing so many of the jobs that have been done. It's going to be better at writing contracts and...
It's gonna be better at interpreting x-rays. It's gonna be better at so many things. The list, I don't know where it ends. And that's what makes me nervous. But what makes me excited about the future is that...
I believe that we're going to want to be more human. We're going to want to have more human connections. The stuff that you and I care about so much that you've spent your entire career making possible at camp and helping other camps make possible around the world, I'm excited.
at the opportunity that AI has to reduce some of the struggle that we have to write emails and just keep up with all these things and let us search for what really makes us human. That there'll be a boom in the arts, that there'll be a boom in third places and that there'll be a boom in finding the truest
places where humans can be human together. And I mean, that's why I believe in camp. That's why I think that kids need this so much today, maybe more than ever before. And I know you have worked tirelessly to help camps across the country make this possible. And this is the part of your work that I know the least about.
Jack:
And so just tell me about what it's like to advocate for this in Washington or in Manchester. How do we help the world see or the government see the value of what we do at camp every summer at hundreds of thousands of camps across the country?
Scott:
Well, look, when I was the board chair of the American Camp Association and that happened starting –
in 2019, so right before COVID started. I really was thinking about a different, there were a different set of considerations, kind of what was it that we needed to help our camps with so that they could have the greatest impact on kids? What kind of tools did we need in terms of professional development and all of those things? And suddenly the world got turned upside down.
And like so many sectors, camps had to really figure out how to operate in that environment. And that was really challenging. We had to partner with the CDC. One sort of aha that we had early on was they're not gonna think of camp, right? It was March and we knew camp was coming up and there wasn't gonna be guidance and they probably
weren't going to let camps open at all unless we gave them the tools to help them do that. And so we set out to work with a public health consultancy and essentially we developed the guidance that the CDC ended up using and that was used all over the country and in after school and in other places. And I really fell in love with that engagement, with that work, with the opportunity to advocate for camps with the policy
makers that, you know, as it turns out, right, unless we've got them on board, we can't open, right? And, you know, 85 % of the summer camps in America, including Kenwood and Evergreen, couldn't open in 2020 because despite our work, we just couldn't get the yeses at the state level. And ultimately, though, we forged amazing relationships. And I discovered that, you know,
Scott:
there are millions and millions and millions of people in this country who went to camp, right? Pretty much 50 % of the kids in America get exposed to some kind of camp's experience every summer, around 26 million. And if you think of all of the adults in America who went to camp, you you're dealing with over 100 million people, know, substantially more probably. And so it is amazing to have the chance to connect
with decision makers and help them understand what kind of contribution camps can make to the education and development of kids. And really to advocate the position that every kid should be able to have that experience and every kid needs to grow not just in the ways that they can in their K to 12 schools, but in all of these other critical ways that schools unfortunately don't have the time or resources to
focus on, right? How do you educate the whole child? And so those are the things that I get to do. I work with other volunteers and with some advocates in Washington and, you know, when needed. I was in the State House in New Hampshire today describing a bill that I helped to write to make camps safer in New Hampshire. It's a joy, frankly.
to be able to work with other camp professionals and advocate for this experience and frankly to help our decision makers, our policy makers understand what it is that kids will need to thrive in tomorrow's world.
Jack:
I've thanked you for this already and I'll thank you. want to sure to thank you on air. I started a camp in upstate New York called Camp Stomping Ground. It's a great camp. It helps bring kids to camp of all different backgrounds, that kind of thing. we're an independent nonprofit camp.
Scott:
Yes, you did.
Jack:
We had just acquired a property and the world shuts down for COVID. And without the work you did to change the way the PPP loan was configured, I don't think stomping ground gets to exist today. And so thank you for that. And there are hundreds and soon to be thousands of kids that get to spend their summers in New York that appreciate the work you did. And that's just for the camp I know. I know that that is true for...
how many hundred camps that exist today because of the work that you did in Washington to change, know, what probably ended up, I haven't seen this, this again, this is the part of your work that I don't know much about, probably changed only a few words in a bill to keep an entire industry possibly afloat because...
I know from our experience, we were able to have three times as much forgivable support from the federal government as we would have it. And I really don't think that stomping ground would have been able to exist without you. thank you so much for that.
Scott:
That's very kind. Thank you, Jack.
It was great and I have to say, look, you know, we have had the opportunity to work with many, many talented people over the years and we have an extraordinary leadership team at Kenwood and Evergreen. My girl's director, Jackie, and her husband, Bob, you know, Josh, our assistant director, Alice and Allie and DJ and Catherine and so many, Sue.
our property management team. We've got it, we have, I love working with these amazing human beings. And I have to say when you approached me about, you know, potentially joining our team and becoming a member of our leadership team, and in particular focusing on family engagement and outreach, I was so excited and, you
for the folks that don't know you, yes, you were a 25-year-old that started an amazing nonprofit camp that everyone in the country was talking about.
and made a name for yourself as a leader, as a young leader that broke through everywhere. And you've become one of the most valued staff trainers and communicators in the country. And we get to work with you, which is so exciting. And ironically, what our parents don't know is
Scott:
My two day camps.
Everwood and Siwataro had both hired you independently to come in and do staff training for this year, not even knowing that we were talking. Because you bring freshness and insight and joy and creativity and energy and brilliance into your work.
of the people that I really wanted to get to know because the people in my field who I trust the most, my partners and my friends have been talking about you for a really long time. So I sort of feel, you know, kind of doubly blessed that we were able to connect and that you wanted to join us on this journey because that's really, really exciting and that
That is what Kenwood and Evergreen, somehow we've managed to do this, right? To attract.
you know, amazing leaders over the years, from Ken who founded the camp and his wife Bernice, to Arthur and Judy, to the team that I've been blessed to work with for Phyllis who led Evergreen for so many years and now can't stay away during the summer, always visits, but extraordinary people. And I just feel so blessed that you are gonna be with us this summer and part of our amazing
Scott:
leadership team.
Jack:
Thank you for saying that.
My friend Sylvia, I one time was hanging out with my friend Sylvia and she at the time had a four year old daughter and someone came over and Greta, the daughter had been drawing and made something that looked like a four year old had drawn it. You know, it's cool, it was awesome. And somebody gave a compliment to Greta and Greta kept pushing back. She no, no, no, it's not that good, it's not that good. And her grandma with all of her sort of Midwest wisdom came over and said, Greta,
You have two options when someone gives you a compliment. You can either say, thank you, or aw shucks. Those are your options. So Scott, aw shucks.
Scott:
I like that, Jack. I like that. So what drew you to us? And what drew you to Camp? You're a, look, you're somebody who could be doing anything. This is repeat of that conversation Arthur and Judy had with me all those years ago that we were chuckling about yesterday, right? You are a guy that could be doing anything. Why Camp? And why Kenwood and Evergreen?
Jack:
I grew up in a house that was not growing me up to be a camp director. That was not in Pam and John Schatz sort of list of things for me to do. My mom was a math teacher for elementary school. She was my math teacher and she was strict. My dad sort of had the sort of kids are supposed to be seen but not heard mentality. And when I went off to college and school was never, never challenging for me. I always did well in school. was a, I admittedly did not love it, but I, always could do well. always wanted to be moving, but I could get by. And so I was doing well in school. And so my dad, when I went off to college, he said, Jack, you have two options.
you can go to school for science or can go to school for business. And he sort of rolled his eyes at the idea of business. And so there I went off to school for engineering. And every summer I went back to camp and I worked at camp. I'd grown up, you know, spending a few weeks of summer at camp. And every summer in college, I went back to work and I did every seasonal job from washing dishes to running the CIT program and being the program director and all the things. And
My guidance counselor, my advisors in engineering school thought I was outside my mind. I should be going to get internships and I did a couple of semesters where I worked in a plant that made pumps for nuclear generators. I went out and did, I saw what engineering looked like and I got my degree, but it wasn't for me.
So I graduated from college and I thought, you I'm going to go get a job in a second. So I should see the, I should see the country and
Jack:
You know, I didn't have a lot of money. So I started emailing camp directors asking if they had a place that I could stay in exchange for some volunteer work and I ended up what I thought would be a couple of months driving around the country with Laura Kriegel I thought it would turn into you know, three three months on the road. We'd see some camps would get to the West Coast we turn around and and I'd get a engineering job somewhere and do the sort of normal Path and that turned into two years driving around the country seeing over 200 camps
47 states and I fell in love with the idea of camp.
not the camp that I've grown up at, but the idea that kids get a chance to leave home for a little while, sometimes for three days a week, sometimes the whole summer, and get to be a version of themselves that they maybe haven't tried before. And in a safe place with people that care about them, and they get to take little risks. They're safe. I mean, we're taking risks. The risks are like, should I go to archery or pottery?
how do I introduce myself to someone that is in the bunk next door? Like those are the risks that you that you take at camp. And they're important. They're really important. That risk as an eight year old is incredibly important because you learn the edges of what you're comfortable with, what's possible. You get to you get to feel the visceral reward of taking the risk to say, hey, do you want to play Gaga? And someone saying yes. And you're just now you have a fast you all of sudden have a friend who you
you know, you didn't know before and it's from across the country or whatever. And so I fell in love with the growth that happens at camp, the opportunity that is this space. And that led to meeting some of the most compassionate, thoughtful, passionate people in the world. If you have a chance to meet camp directors, they're some of the best people on the planet. They spend their lives waking up every day trying to make kids' lives better. And we got pushed to start a camp.
Jack:
we ended up doing something that's financially responsible, which is bootstrapping a nonprofit camp, but it was awesome. And I learned a ton and grew it from, you know, no campers in 2015 to when I left, we were serving 150 kids at a time, two week sessions, you know, over 600 kids were coming through our doors at stomping ground. When I left in 2021, we'd acquired a property and got to work with my hands and we built eight cabins and
Anyway, it was unbelievable learning experience and You know loved loved getting to do that What drew me to Kenwood nevergreen is that? one
I remember in 2012 driving around the country watching videos of you talk about 21st century skills or maybe it was 2014, but it's that long ago that you were talking about building places for kids to learn the skills that prepare them for the future that's coming, just like we talked about at the beginning. And that was really important to me. And as I, you were talking about camp.
Scott:
Hmm.
Jack:
from this perspective that is values driven, is mission driven, that is about the growth and opportunity that happens for kids at camp, not the fancy toys. And I love the toys, don't get me wrong. Let's go swimming. Let's go swimming and play archery tag and do Sarant. Like sign me up for all of that. I am all for it and I'm even more for the special events. I cannot wait for Color War. Like I am...
Scott:
Hmm.
We all have been tried.
Jack:
you're gonna see me painted and it's gonna be, I'm wiling out, I never made sense in engineering school and we're gonna have a great time. But the mission is what started to let me see what was possible at camp and change the way I thought about camp as a 25 year old. And as I started to learn more and more about Kenwood and Evergreen, what is even more inspiring to me now is
The idea that what we're helping kids do is come to camp as thoughtful, kind, compassionate, nice kids. I got to be at the New York reunion and meet some of the kids so far and I can't wait to meet more of them. The kids are overwhelmingly just so, just thoughtful kids. They're nice kids, they're kind kids. And unfortunately,
Scott:
That's our niche, right? It's kind kids. It's kind.
Jack:
And unfortunately, the world doesn't necessarily reward that.
and can steal some of the kindness from people. And what happened for me at camp was at camp, I got to be the kindest version of myself. I got to be the most empathetic and thoughtful version of myself. And I played rugby in college and that was not what was rewarded of the rugby team. And I was the captain of my rugby team. Like I love rugby, but it's just not where it's rewarded. Where you earn status and what it seems like Kenwood Nevergreen does maybe better than anyone is where you earn status at camp
by taking care of other people. And so what that does for kids is it rewards you taking care of other people. So you learn to be more confident as the kind version of yourself, as the thoughtful version of yourself. And our friend Steve says that what we're hoping to do at camp is prepare kids to be the kind version of themselves. So when they're off at college on the first day of college and other people are crying and missing home, not only.
are our kids able to handle that first struggle of being away from home, but they're also the shoulder for other folks to cry on. And K &E does that. That's what you've done for almost 100 years. And the world is a rough place for lots of people and we need more kindness.
and kindness has to come with confidence for it to keep going. And I think that's what has drawn me in and then getting to meet the team and some of the kids and just starting to meet just a few of the families. I cannot wait. If you're a K &E parent, please, I can't wait to talk to you and hear your story and why you chose camp. The community.
Jack:
of thoughtful people taking care of each other and spreading this empathy to the world is what's drawn me in and I can't wait to get to know it better and of course the fun. You've seen me just, Scott you've just seen the beginning of the wild silliness that I like to play and I can't wait for that part, that magic, that sort of combination of chocolate and peanut butter that is fun and camp and growth is...
I can't wait.
Scott:
Did you really bicycle around Europe in a shark costume? Is that the stuff of legends or is that the real deal?
Jack:
I got a text from my friend Blake, it's in 2021 and he said, you wanna bike the Camino backwards. And I said, I don't speak a lick of Spanish and I haven't biked since I was 12 years old. He said, no problem, buy your flight. And we get on a call and he tells me I've gotta get salmon costumes.
because we're gonna bike the opposite direction of the Camino de Santiago. the sort of northern part of Spain, many people do, but we're going upstream. And so it's my job to find salmon costumes. Turns out it's hard to find salmon costumes.
Scott:
that you're going upstream.
Jack:
And
stupid Americans. Because without even talking to us they could tell we were Americans. And if you've traveled abroad you know what that's like.
Scott:
Well, you know what? You need a little of that to be a leader at camp, honestly, right?
Not being afraid to maybe look foolish in the eyes of some, but to make other people happy and lead the fun, that's magic. And I know you've got that in amazing supply. You're gonna also get to meet Adventure Dave, who leads so many of our daily trips, expeditions into the wilderness. He's got that same energy. It's a wonderful thing.
We need more of it.
Jack:
Scott, I know you're asking me questions, but I'm too curious here. On the website, and I've heard this from lots of people, Camps Kenwood and Evergreen, imagine a place. Help me imagine what the place is. I've walked around, I've seen the facility, but that's not what we're talking about.
Scott:
Right, right. Look, when we came up with that descriptor, there have been many different things that have followed. But I think some of the kind of timeless qualities are, imagine a place where being a good friend is the most important thing.
That was actually the concept that we started with because for so many kids, they can't really imagine a place like that. It's not, you know, it's not...
what they encounter at school, at home, or on a sports team, or whatever. For some kids, that comes so easy. And we've got a lot of those kids too, right? And the world sort of greets them on a level playing field and everything feels good. But we want Kenwood and Evergreen to be that kind of place for every kid, right? And we want to meet them where they are, right? So, you know, it's really not like other places, right?
We want to meet kids where they are and then embrace them and celebrate them for who they are and then help them discover who they can be.
Right. And I think that that imagine a place concept is really kind of recognizing that it almost sounds fanciful and magical, but actually at camp at Kenwood and Evergreen, it's real. Right. And that's what we work so hard to accomplish, you know, summer after summer. And and I'm so proud, you know, we've got we're one of the few camps, for instance, these days, where
Scott:
kids, you know, a lot of our kids come from families that have lots of options, right? And our kids could do lots of things. We have more kids who want to be counselors when they're old enough to be counselors than almost any other camp I know. Most camps that serve families with lots of options don't have a lot of kids coming back.
But there is a pay it forward piece of being a member of the Kenwood and Evergreen community that I just treasure, right? Because it really speaks to who our kids grow into as young adults and that they're not looking inward, know, they're looking outward and they're saying, how can I make a difference?
And at the same time, we don't, it doesn't just happen, right? Because for probably the last 20, 25 years, we've been super intentional about the growth of our staff, about helping them have, continue that growth that they had as campers, or if they're new to us, to experience it, and to continue to develop their human skills so that when they head off,
into whatever career, maybe it's gonna be back at camp someday like you and me Jack and some of our wonderful leaders at camp, but maybe it's gonna be somewhere else. They are going to have the capacity to make a difference.
Right? They are going to be able to walk into a room and connect with people. They're going to be able to listen with empathy and compassion. And they're going to be loved and respected enough that people will listen to them. Will want to hear what they have to say. Kenwood and Evergreen alum are leaders. Right? And they're not leaders because they're just alpha-ing it out and smacking other people down. They're leaders because of what
Scott:
they bring to the table, right? And the way they lead with compassion and the kind of role models they are for others. And honestly, I think, you know, kind of that imagine a place, like I'm also imagining what the world would be like with more and more people who grow up in this way and can make a positive difference in the world.
Jack:
As you know, I spend about half my time working on camp stuff at the moment and helping other camps do things and I can't wait to be able to really focus and get back into building community at the camp. But what I've also been able to do over the last couple of years since...
since leaving Stomping Ground is that I do coaching and facilitation with mostly companies that are sort of like associated with YPO. And what I'm seeing all the time is I get in these executive rooms and I'm with the CFO and the head of HR and the head of operations or whatever. they just...
What they need is exactly what you're describing. And I was hearing you talk about this in 2010, 2012, whenever it was that these things were coming out. But it wasn't real for me. I was just a kid out of college.
Now, you know, I went into this world. I thought I was going to be a corporate consultant. Sylvia, Greta's mom, aw shucks, calls me and says, hey, what are you going to do after camp? You're working for me. And she starts sending me off in my business costume to, uh, to help people talk to each other better. And so I'm like, Hey, this is what I'll do for the rest of my life. And it could not be more true that our grownups need more camp.
and that our kids growing up into this world need more of that confidence and compassion and listening skills that you're talking that we can imagine a place that inspires that. And so first of all, thank you for keeping this happen, continuing to make this happen. And I have two more questions for you. First question, Scott, I'm new to the K &E family. What advice do you have for me?
Jack:
to help me be successful as I navigate into what is a rich tradition of incredible people and impact and fun and growth.
Scott:
Mmm.
I think it is connect with as many families as you can. Get to know the members of our community. And I'm giving you the space to do that. And that's really your job one is that I want you to do that because first of all, we have a remarkable community of families. We just do. These are people that I love to be with, I love to see and connect with. And I want them
to get to know you and I want us to, you know, sort of renew our relationships with our families. You know, again, we're in a little bit of a chaotic moment right now. And I think I really want to, I want our community to be one that all of our families can rely on for support. We can lean on each other.
I say to our parents at our new camper parties, I always take a moment at the start when I'm meeting with parents. The kids are off meeting each other and our counselors are running activities and we usually do these in May a little bit before camp starts and I say, hey take a take a few minutes to chat with the person in front of you or next to you or behind you because when the buses drive off
Right? These are the folks that are gonna be standing next to you, right? And in that same emotional state of knowing you just did the right thing, but you already miss those kids and you need a little support and a little love. But because 95 % of our kids come back,
Scott:
and we have so many deep and meaningful friendships among our campers, our parents are gonna get to know each other. And I see them making these lifelong friends. So, you know, we have a beautiful and wonderful community. I want you to get to know that community. And I'd say the second thing is, I want you to be yourself.
Right? We have spent a lot of time together getting to know each other and knowing who you are as a human being, knowing what your values are. You know, to me, these are sort of the prerequisites of, you know, kind of opening our gate, the gates of our community to someone who is going to step in and be a leader. And I want people to get to know you. Right? They know our staff who have been with us for years and years. And so many of our
our leaders are treasured and loved, you're very lovable, Jack. I want people to get to know you. And, you know, I want you to bring the unique stuff that you will bring to our community. Because the truth is, we have evolved.
over the years and we've evolved because people join our community and make transformative contributions, right? And even though there are some things that are timeless, you know, one of those qualities is that we need to keep evolving and maintain our relevancy and connect to the future. And that's one of the reasons I feel really blessed that you're joining our community.
Jack:
shucks. Okay, my last question and we can keep talking. In 2012, I was driving around the country and was trying to soak up as many pieces of advice from camp directors as I could. And the internet really didn't make that as easy as it does now. So imagine there's a...
23 year old Jack driving around the country right now or or looking around What are a couple of book recommendations that you would have? for Jack to prepare You know, this is this is for the 22 year olds out there thinking about a career a career as a camp director What should they be listening to? What should they be reading? What content is out there that that sets them up for success?
Scott:
Mm.
Scott:
So it's great question. again, I have been blessed to get to know some extraordinary people who have dedicated their lives and their studies and their professional careers to really pondering what kids need to develop into the kind of human beings that we've been talking about. Recently, I've been spending a fair amount of time with a wonderful science
psychologist and researcher at University of Texas. His name is David Yeager and he just published a book in August called 10 to 25 and it's really about pre-adolescent and adolescent, principally adolescent folks and the ways that they relate to the world and it's ostensibly about connecting
with adolescents and motivating them. But what it really is also about is how to mentor them.
and how to find mentors for them and what the mentor mindset is all about. And David loves camp, values camp. He's actually coming to the American Campus Association Conference in a couple of weeks and will be speaking there. But he's, you know, I learn something, I keep learning from people like David or our consulting.
psychologist Michael Thompson, who's written so many amazing books. And I guess I'd go back to Michael's book, Homesick and Happy, which is specifically about the gifts that kids gain through camp experiences. We've shared that with many of our families. I'd say 10 to 25 is the new book that we're going to be celebrating and give
Scott:
our families an opportunity to connect with David. So those are sort of the hot button authors that I've been thinking about lately. But we've always got our ear to the ground. We're always scanning the horizon too, right? Trying to figure out what it is we need to know to do this work most effectively.
Jack:
Scott, thank you for this conversation and even more for the opportunity to spend the summer with you and get messy and dirty and laugh and swim and play and probably cry at camp this summer. cannot wait for, can it be June? I can't wait for camp, so.
Scott:
It's coming up faster than we think.
Jack:
And we're not actually ready yet, so it can't be June yet, we still have work to do. There's actually a lot of work that goes into running camp and we still have to finish it.
Scott:
We're still enrolling lots of kids every day, which is extraordinary. We've been very busy and that's been a real blessing. So we're excited for the summer, very excited to have you join us. I'm excited to be together with our leadership team again, as a group of people that I just treasure. I really do. And I know you will too. And we're gonna have an amazing summer together.
Jack:
And if this sounds like the kind of place that your kid would love to be, send me an email, jackatkenwood-evergreed.com and we'll get them to camp because it matters. It's important that kids get a chance to experience this kind of stuff. well, anyway, Scott, you're awesome. Thank you so much.
Scott:
Thank you, Jack.